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Topic: Spinnaker pole question |
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JohnB |
Posted: 28-May-12 20:48 |
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We bought a buzz in later 2011.
This weekend we used the spinnaker for the first time in light winds.
I have a question about the spinnaker pole.
Going out is not a problem because of hoisting the spinnaker the double block in the front of the boat is causing the pole going out.
But after getting the spinnaker back in, the pole was not coming in completely.
Can somebody tell which mechanisme is causing the pole coming in again ? |
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Stu B |
Posted: 28-May-12 23:33 |
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Hi John,
The pole relies on the spinnaker being pulled down to pull the pole in, so the pole needs to be nice and free. Often it's worth removing the pole so that you can clean and polish the hull where the pole goes through. The other bit to check is where the tack line knot is set, the rope that goes through the pole would originally have a knot inside the pole that determines how far the rope moves, if the rope has been changed then hopefully whoever did it has put the knot at the back of the pole so that you can adjust if neccessary.
Hopefully the above makes sense, but if you need photo's then email me at buzzclass@btinternet.com and i'll send to you.
Stuart.
Buzz 1000
Buzz Class Chairman |
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JohnB |
Posted: 29-May-12 21:11 |
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Thanks for your explanation.
I will try if there is a knot inside. I saw there is a knot outside at the back of the pole on the tack line. However this is not directly at the back but maybe more then 50cm away. I will check when I'm back at the boat again.
Can you tell me how much cm the back knot on the tack line should be placed away from the back of the pole when the front knot is against the front of the pole ?
In other words: how much cm should the tack line move ?
Then I can put the knot at the back at the right position.
If I understand correctly:
When the spinnaker is hoisted and the pole is out, the front knot should be against the front of the pole. In this situation the tack line cannot move, because it is tied at a block avoiding the pole comes out further. So the tack line can only move when the pole goes in (and the front knot moves away from the front of the pole). The inside knot or back knot avoids to much (outside) movement of the tack line.
I will send you an email for the photo's. |
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Stu B |
Posted: 29-May-12 23:54 |
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John,
I should have read this before replying to your email. Anyway, your explanation of how it works is correct, it is the tack line that controls how far out the pole goes. The knot either inside or behind the pole controls how far the spinnaker tack moves from the outer end of the pole when pulling the spinnaker down.
I hope the photo's help as well.
Stuart. |
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JohnB |
Posted: 30-May-12 18:44 |
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Thanks for the photo's. It helps indeed.
I have visit my boat and indeed there is no knot inside the pole.
On your pictures I saw the external knot at the back of the pole is about 10-15 cm away from the back of the pole (which mean the tack line can also move 10-15 cm when lowering the spinnaker). I adjusted this on my boat, so hopefully the pole will pull in further when lowering the spinnaker. We will see next time.
I don't have the spinnaker takeaway system which are on your foto's.
What is the purpose of it ?
Also another question:
Is it correct that when lowering the spinnaker, it always hits the water for a "while" ?
According to the rigging DVD the line coming from the spinnaker chute goes through the lower hole and then to the upper patch where it is tied. About 30 cm from the end of this line there is a big knot. This one is causing the spinnaker comes back in the chute. This also means that the knot hits the lower hole after a while when lowering the spinnaker. In the meantime the lower part of the spinnaker hits the water. Or are we not quick enough lowering the sail ?
John
P.S. I already noticed you are taking over the supply for spares, which is great. I bookmarked your site and will certainly contact when I need something (hopefully not to soon and to much  ).
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Stu B |
Posted: 02-Jun-12 16:44 |
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John,
The purpose of the spinnaker sheet takeaway system is that when the pole moves in the sheets are pulled forwards and out of the way, when the pole goes out the sheets can go to the crew area where you need them. I have sent you more photo's which show the system in detail.
The spinnaker can hit the water when taking down but best not to as the next problem is normally it going under the boat!! 30cm is a bit much between the two attachments in my opinion, all you are trying to do is stop the spinnaker 'bunching up' when entering the chute, I would recommend about 15cm. Another tip is to ensure you pull most of the slack out of the downhaul rope before uncleating the halyard, this gives you a head start but you do need to pull it down quickly. The helm should also make sure that the wind is more from behind than beside you to make it easier, don't try and drop it whilst on a reach unless you really have to.
Glad you have found our new website for spares (www.vantagesailing.com), still plenty more to do on it, but getting there slowly.
Stuart.
Buzz 1000
Spice 320 |
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JohnB |
Posted: 03-Jun-12 21:31 |
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Thanks.
I will try next time (which can take some time). Probably we are taking to much time lowering the spinnaker.
John |
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Ian 23 |
Posted: 04-Jun-12 22:11 |
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Just a few things about that:
- you need to work on your technique for a speedy retrieval: use big armfuls when pulling it in, from the block at the end of the chute all the way up/behind as far as each arm length can go, that gives you about 1m50 for each armful, so you're done after 3 or 4. Use your legs at the end to finish it off with more power. Watch how they do it on the sailing sequence at the end of the rigging DVD. Have a look also how 49er crews do it with a much bigger kite,it's very impressive!
- I have heard of another technique which is used to control the speed of the retrieval by putting your foot on the halyard that runs on the deck and letting it go gradually to slow the manoeuvre down. I've never tried it myself, but I imagine it requires good hand/foot coordination! Anyone tried that?
- I've seen Buzzes that manage a very "clean" put-away where there is nothing sticking out of the chute once they've drawn the last bit of retrieval line. I've always wondered how they do it while still having a tack end near enough the front of the pole when the kite is flying. I always end up with a messy bunch flopping over the top...
- when the spinnaker is down, the halyard always gets in the way when I furl the jib. How do you prevent that from happening?
Y
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Stu B |
Posted: 05-Jun-12 14:48 |
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Ian/ John,
To prevent the 'messy bunch of spinnaker' it's the knot either inside or behind the pole that will control this. Even if in exactly the right position the spinnaker won't always be fully retrieved, especially if you pull the spinnaker down on a reach. It's always best to drop the kite with the wind behind you, not always possible, but with a bit of planning you can normally bear off before taking it down.
With regards to the tack line knot position, i've never worked out why Topper put the knot inside the pole, other than maybe for asthetics?? It means you cannot adjust it and also that you need to remove a pole end to change the tack line.
Spinnaker halyard - if you furl the jib when using the kite in light winds then make sure you do the furling whilst the spinnaker is up. At other times it does often get caught in the jib, we try to get a bit of slack in the halyard and then lean the boat to one side whilst furling the jib. This method doesn't always work but normally does.
Stuart & Zoe. |
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Ian 23 |
Posted: 09-Jun-12 09:11 |
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Thank you! I'll give it a go!
Y |
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JohnB |
Posted: 11-Jun-12 19:01 |
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I tried yesterday again, but now with the tack line knot at about 15 cm. This is working better now I think. On the rigging DVD (0:44:24) it looks like the knot is much more then 15 cm away. When the kite is completely in the chute, the pole is still 20-30 cm out. This mean the knot must be on the DVD more then 30-40 cm away.
And indeed taking the slack out of the downhaul line is working much better. It still hits the water but maybe I need more practice.
We have the knot on the downhaul line at about 30 cm from the end of the line (according to the rigging DVD).
Also when lowering the kite, sometimes it won't enter the shute. The lower hole (which is the first part which enters the shute) is then "stuck" on the edge of the boat just before the chute entrance. But maybe we are too carefully and have to put more power on pulling in.
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