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Author Topic: Jib Sheets
Tim Posted: 01-May-07 11:43
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So, how does everyone feel about the loads on the jib sheets? I have been sailing the 800 and the B14 and both have double purchase jib sheets which make adjustment in breeze a hell of a lot easier.

Anyone got any opinion on this? Nice cheap change that might make the boat easier to sail in a breeze. As we are trying to attract new people to the class that are usually fairly new to wiring/fast boats would it be sensible to make it as easy as possible to crew?

All these helms have enough input into changes, any from the crews? Or are we a contented with our lot?
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 01-May-07 11:56
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Good idea Tim.

First though we need to ensure we have the decent eyes in the jib clews. The standard Sobstad ones are cr@p! A sailmake told me they were about 2p to produce. The more expensive ones with smooth metal eye and plastic border moulding, are about 10p. They both take about the same amount of time to install, but the 10p versions last a lot longer. These latter ones would be good for the jib sheets to just run round.
 
graham_737 Posted: 01-May-07 14:19
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Tim, i find it easier to adjust them in a blow if they are the 'gucci' sheets u fell in love with at Chew!

Seriously tho, they can be a bit on the tricky side and it wouldn't be hard to put a double purchase system on there would it? Althou where would the purchase go to as surely it has to change with the angle of the sheeting? I can't think of a boat with adjustable b'haulers that isn't self tacking (and has a double purchase)... any offers?

Maybe Matt Lewis could have some input on this as he can't pull the kite up so how does he manage to do the jib?!

[Edited by graham_737 on 01-May-07 14:20]
 
Tim Posted: 01-May-07 16:13
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He probably gets his daddy to do that too... Big "Awwww"

Might need a little bit of thinking about but if the sheet went back to the bottom of the barber it would be ok wouldn't it? I suppose it could pull the barber forward.

Pete, I have have my jib clews pull out to agree they aren't great, can get get the new ones checked? Putting a block on them might help as the direction of pull wouldn't be affected by the stopper knot. Would help with the thinner sheets we all seem to like now too.
 
Richard 553 Posted: 01-May-07 17:13
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Whimps the lot of you.....

Seriously though I can't think of an easy way of creating a double purchase with the existing setup. Normally you would dead end the sheet at the fairlead take it throught the jib eye and back throught the fairlead. With our free floating b'haulers there is no logical anchor point without affecting the sheeting angle. If you anchored it on the b'hauler itself the forward force would pull the b'hauler forward. If anchored on the eye on the floor, if it didn't pull it out, the sheeting angle would be drastically lowered. The would be a major problem with the new hyde sails where we have found we have had to lengthen the b'hauler setting.

Comparing the Hyde clew eye with the Sobstad one, the Hyde is the smooth metal type with the plastic border moulding.

We generally get round the problem in a blow by switching to thicker sheets. For subtle adjustments I do it as the helm as we find it easier with the angle of the cleats and means Matt can stay flat on the wire.

Anyway as the lardy lump at the back I dont sit out anyway do I...
 
graham_737 Posted: 01-May-07 18:25
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Lloyd i hope you're reading this...The Silver Feather pulls the kite up, does the jib, bet he'd trim the kite if the crew asked nicely!

Crews i say to you all; this man should be an example to all our helms, be them old or young, big or small!

p.s Richard - you thought of taking up IC sailing?!
 
Annie Posted: 01-May-07 18:39
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I think it might be helpful for my weedy little arms I was struggling to pull the jib in when it got breezy at Datchet the other weekend. Peter might like me to release it a bit quicker too - although this would take away a bit of the excitment (do we capsize or do we not). But more seriously it might make the boat look more up to date with extra modern touches.

Annie
 
Matt Lewis Posted: 01-May-07 20:04
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I think that i should start to defend myself here, following Tim and Grahams comments. It works well for us with the silver feather pulling up the kite and me dropping it. For the jib, i suggest you two exercise and get stronger, or just use ur legs aswell.

I think i should point out we rarely switch to thicker sheets cause we forget or are too lazy (or drunk) to do it.
Btw, i can hoist a kite

Chunder
 
Tim Posted: 01-May-07 22:53
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Thick sheets! And your calling us whimps...

Anyway, I know you can tweak the jib but its sooo much easier on the double purchase system. This means you can actually concentrate on sailing the boat well rather than turning it into a strength contest.

Could you put a double block on the barber and then lead the tail, through the barber, back to the existing block/cleat? Surely this is a time to make these few tweaks, the fact you have to adjust the jib upwind Richard, is surely an indication there is a problem!

Tim
 
Bob Ladell Posted: 02-May-07 10:12
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So - give it a try someone. Rules 2004 allow the addition of purchase if I recall.

Crews - giving it verbal instead of just getting on with the job again .....

... and curiously running out of beer tokens ........


Old guy at the back
 
Diederik Schuuring Posted: 02-May-07 11:25
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Hi,

I think I might know a solution for a double jib sheet. One could make a special attach point under the jib cleat, e.g. take some aluminium strip , drill two holes for the cleat and an extra hole where the strip is coming out to the front of the cleat. Unscrew the jib cleat, place the strip under the cleat and attach both of them to the hull again. One could fix the end of the jib sheet to this extra point. Then replace the barberhauler block by a double block and the problem is solved.

Cheers, Diederik
 
Bryanh123 Posted: 02-May-07 14:22
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Just wondered if it might not be easier to replace the existing swivel block for a swivel block with a beck, and then the jub sheet tail could be fiexd to the beck, run thru the jib eye and back thru the block as per normal, this would give the extra purchase and would not affect the trimming of the barbers. Just a thought.

New guy at the back
 
Rob_Heath Posted: 02-May-07 16:59
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Hi Folks,

We have been using a double purchase for over a year now. It just happens that an old kite sheet is just about the right length for the double system. We tied a loop of Dyneema through the jib clew, with a standard 22mm block on each free end. Take a standard stainless saddle and bend it over to form a fitting for a stainless ring to go in, then use one of the jib cleat screws to hold it down. Tie one end of the new sheet to this eye, up to one of the clew blocks, back down under the barber, through the cleat, then reapeat the other side. If anyone would like some photo's let me know - I should be up at the club this weekend.

Regards

Rob ( 806 )
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 02-May-07 17:16
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Photo's anyway Rob please.

ISOFeedback3 'AT' asafeplace.co.uk


Pete Lindley
ISO 1013 'Team RWO'
 
Lloyd Walker Posted: 02-May-07 17:23
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would't it be easier to replace the crew after a few sails. They don't last long anyway. I find after one or two seasons they are knackered and chop mine in.
 
graham_737 Posted: 02-May-07 19:06
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So here i am preparing for my final exams, an emotional time for any young crew, only to be greeted with the news that i'm ready to join the long list of "ex's" ;-(

I heard there was a nice merlin waiting for a crew anyway mate, it'd make a nice change to stay dry and breathe in some lovely cigar smoke between races!
 
Tim Posted: 02-May-07 23:16
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Graham,

I hope you managed to get some kind of pre-nup so you can take your jib sheets with you!

Rob, some photos would be great! Anyone got any other tricks to make our job easier? Autopilot?
 
Rob_Heath Posted: 06-May-07 19:11
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Hi Pete,

I e_mailed a few photo's to you last night, let me know if they don't arrive. If anyone else would like them mailing to them, just drop me a line at rob 'AT' rshservices 'dot' plus 'dot' com.
The total file size is about 3Mb.

A warm welcome to Mark on joining Yorkshire Dales SC - the first ISO we have seen up in the frozen wastes of the North !!!!

Regards

Rob
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 06-May-07 20:41
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Thinking about moving this topic to the ISO development section as it
doesn't seem to be crewy enough!

jib purchase photos provided by Rob are now online:

www.asafeplace.co.uk/isoracingtemp/jib_purchase

Looks pretty smart.

Personal opinion would be to have shorter rope strops for the blocks.
Also ensure the blocks are no bigger than 28mm single blocks. The rop
e strop if tied to the jib would help prevent damage to the mast by th
at shackle.


Pete
 
tasarhans Posted: 06-May-07 21:52
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Looks good indeed...

I think the "point of attack" changes by the way the jib sheet is mounted at the ground block (effectively somewhere between the barberhauler and the ground block).
Might be better (for sheeting the jib and compliance to the rules??) to use a double block for the barberhauler and lead the jibsheet there...

Question: Is there a lot of extra sheetmess in the boat?? (longer lines etc...)

I'll show these pictures to my crew....

[Edited by tasarhans on 06-May-07 23:04]
 
graham_737 Posted: 06-May-07 23:17
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I think i might be making the same point as Hans here, but this system doesn't provide the same variation in sheeting angles as the old one?

It might be that my brain is working properly, but surely with the system in the photo's, pulling the b'hauler down simply adds to the sheet tension instead of providing the leech tension that it would do on the normal jib sheet system?

Is it not the case that there's always going to be a straight line between the cleat and the block, so there's only a very narrow 'window' of adjustment for the barberhaulers?

I like it though! Just might be a problem if u wanted to pin the leech down i guess.
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 07-May-07 18:20
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Double block on the barberhaulers would sort it though.

Pete
 
Rob_Heath Posted: 07-May-07 20:04
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Hi Folks,

I thought about using double blocks on the barber haulers, but the singles seem to work fine ( although you do have to pull the barber on harder to get the same deflection -didn't have any double blocks in my box of bits at the time ! ). Pete is quite correct though, a double block would work exactly as the standard setup. Obviously there is significantly more string to trip over - so far I have just coiled it up and thrown it forward - I think I can feel another elastic sheet tidy coming on !!!

Cheers

Rob
 
Tim Posted: 08-May-07 10:13
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I think a double block would make the system ideal. The double purchase means that you could use a lot thinner string too, and reduce the friction in the system.

Do you need such a long piece between the clew and the block? I think the B14 just has the block shackled straight to the clew. Also means less hardware whipping about if you flog the jib (gasp!)
 
Lloyd Walker Posted: 08-May-07 18:10
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or buy some more gloves!!!!
 
graham_737 Posted: 08-May-07 19:28
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Think you should have told this guy that....

http://fotoboat.thirdlight.com/viewpicture.tlx?albumid=95516&picturei
d=4233365


Such crewing endeavours should be rewarded with ropes from Bob's never ending box. Anyone got photographic evidence of worse?!

Entries in a Jpeg!
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 08-May-07 21:04
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Won't let us view the pic. Email it to me and I'll upload it - obviously with fotoboat across it.

The pic in question can be found at:
www.asafeplace.co.uk/isoracingtemp/ouch.jpeg

Looks like my finger after racing the Buzz at the weekend.

[Edited by Pete Lindley on 08-May-07 21:21]
 
Colin Snook Posted: 10-May-07 13:39
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Looks great. We've often thought about doing this but never got around to it.

I think you probably don't really need a double block because the outgoing half of the purchase isn't going to move very much relative to the barber block. It really only serves to take the strain back to the cleat so that the barber isn't pulled forward. There may be a bit of movement when changing the barber setting but running the outgoing sheet through a loop/ring below the barber might be sufficient.

 
Colin Snook Posted: 19-Jun-07 00:24
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Well we tried the double purchase sheet system but didn't like it and have gone back to standard. The main problem was that the windward (unused) sheet didn't run out very well in light to medium wind. This despite using good sized blocks and thinish (5mm i think) rope. Also, there is a lot of rope to pull through when going about. So my crew is going to get thicker gloves instead.

can anyone suggest the best rope to use in a standard setup and what diameter. Something light that doesn't keep twisting. What do you crews like best?

cheers

C
 
Pete Lindley Posted: 19-Jun-07 12:44
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Not tried the double purchase yet, but in my head I think it is down to the crew to keep the boat tidy and to ensure the slack is taken up in th ewindward jib sheet. Also when tacking, not to let the jib flog too much as this will induce the twisting as you mention.
 

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