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Topic: Dinghy Show |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 08-Mar-04 20:48 |
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Well if you couldn't make the Show this is a summary of what you missed :-
ISO Class Association at The Dinghy Sailing Show 2004
The ISO Class Association will be showing a thought provoking ISO aimed at taking the highly successful formula forwards for another 10 years.
The unstoppable ISO – dinghy of the decade 1993, will be sporting
• new boom
• new wings
• new rudder
• new sail plan
• and many tweaks, tips and tricks
All inspired by ISO Class Members working together. Come and take a look at what may be the future of ISO sailing.
Draft Rules 2004, photos and a voting form will be on the way to paid up members very soon. |
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stephenrbell |
Posted: 09-Mar-04 10:38 |
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New boom great - as it does not affect performance
New wings - I am not convinced, although as a non-wing boat, to be able to use wings would improve my performane more than others.
New rudder - I wouldn't say no to a more durable material to what we have, the same would apply to the dagger board.
New sail plan - sorry didn't see it.
Other tweaks - I like the idea of putting the barber adjustment in the middle, and putting the outhaul adjustment in its place.
Good to see new ideas - keep up the good work. |
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John Shelton |
Posted: 09-Mar-04 20:25 |
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If I'm allowed to post on this topic, I took a look at the improvements on the ISO and they are definitely for the better, but obviously you have to be careful about alienating those that don't have cash to spend - we are not good examples here, although the Boss is a much better boat for the changes we have made.
I think the new racks are a very good idea, as I understand from Ian that there is a big weight saving, notwithstanding the fact that the boat looks a lot better. But, someone needs to consider the loading on the points where the supports enter the hull - I guess that the old wings took a lot of weight along the whole length before, but now it's going to be concentrated on two points, which were not designed for it. You've probably thought of this, but it makes sense for someone to sail this year with a dispensation to see what happens. Also, seriously consider carbon racks - the cost can't be much greater than alloy, but if you get a kink in an alloy tube in a collision (do they happen in the ISO class?), it's a serious weakness, but a carbon tube takes a LOT more punishment before breaking - we should know. There's also a small weight saving.
Otherwise I'm not qualified to comment much further, but looking at all of the competitor boats at the show, we all suffer from the lack of a committed builder to push our classes, so developments of this kind keep us in the picture, and make the boats more interesting. We can whinge about RS/Laser/Devoti/Ovi crowd putting big resources into their classes, it's only business, but enthusiasm from the people that sail is just as important. |
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ISO 653 |
Posted: 09-Mar-04 22:18 |
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I was part of the group that developed - very rapidly - several of the prototype items on the show boat I'd like to add to the debate a little. The rudder stock and the boom seem to be generally well received but there are concerns about the 'alternative wings'. Perhaps I can offer some reassurance to those who are concerned and will say that I especially appreciate the points you raise having been involved with the Blaze class when it made significant changes in recent years.
The 'show' wings are lighter of course - we estimate that made out of H30 alloy, powdercoated and covered with 'pro-grip' or similar they would weight only about 3.5 kg per side - and that's a robust version not some lightweight wonders. This compares with 8.3kg for the GRP ones. I have already suggested to members of your committee that we can easily offer internal weights to bring them up to the GRP weight so that they give no weight advantage and the exisiting equalisation would then need no change. Only if the vast majority wanted to remove these weights at some future point, say 3-5 years ahead, would this become a relevant issue if ever. For some with old, damaged GRP versions this possibly offers a very cost effective alternative and for others the ability to exercise personal choice. Myself I think they are a lot more comfortable for the helm and look better - but that does not make them 'faster' or a 'must buy to remain competitive' issue. If they where weighted up to the GRP weight they could be raced side by side and neither would give any speed advantage.
I do not see any advantage in carbon myself for this particular item given the relative cost and the weight arguments - it has to be very affordable if to become acceptable to all. I would also like to stress that the show ones were 'concept' only but are produced by the same company who make the current Blaze wing system and the RS 700 / 800 ones. We do appreciate the stresses involved and susbsequent ones will be both 'lower' and spread the load carefully particualrly onto the the reinforced areas of the deck around the 'sockets'. It was not possible to compelte this work prior to the show. The GRP ones are not that refined from an engineering point of view anyway and do already sem to contribute to some gel coat fractures. I think this is because they cannot be produced in a consistant form that adaquately deals with all the 'sheer' loadings on the deck surface.
Perhaps the wing issue should be seen as a longer term one. Further development is needed anyway to produce a fully practical version for the class to consider and I agree with one or two of you who think a few sets should be given 'experimental' status provided they were of the same weight of the current GRP ones.
I hope that this reassures some but if anyone want to know more about this topic or related items please feel free to contact me personally or via this forum.
Regards - Mike Lyons - iso '653'
RACE MARINE
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rob |
Posted: 10-Mar-04 16:22 |
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I enjoyed the stand at the boat show and thought that there would be quite a clean cut decition from the fleet. however this does not seem to be the case. As far as i am concerened any thing that makes the boat faster is a bad idea. i.e.
new shape rudder blade and dagger board (why not keep the shape and just improve there strength.
Large kite I think you are a bit early for april fools.
New wings what is the point in it being called iso if we scrap the equal weight system by giving the light weights light wings. plus i like the look of the ones we have.
Although i dont want this to be a moan as i thought the re ropeing was great. the carbon boom will have no difference in speed so you can choose if you want a robust boom when you eventualy break you old one. And the rudder stock looked good and strong for a prototype.
I think top marks should be given to the team who put the ideas together and set up the stand at the boat show.
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Tim |
Posted: 10-Mar-04 17:27 |
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Having not seen the wings at the show but only photos there seems lots of negetive comments. As far as I see it the new wings will not make the boat any faster but simply easier to sail. Anyone who had tried trapezing using the solid wings who doesn't have long legs finds it very hard to move from sitting in the boat to a trapezing condition. I believe that this was a thread in the old message board. The non-solid wings will enable the crew to move from sitting to trapezing by placing a foot on the gunnel on the way rather than just tring to bend there legs double to get a foot on the edge of the wing. I know it would make my life easier anyway and I'm 6ft!! How may other crews feel that this way as I've noticed that it seems mostly helms having there say. Remember be nice to your crews and they might not kick you quite so much...
Tim - Crew ISO 1207 "Wet & Windy" |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 10-Mar-04 17:45 |
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I agree that they will make moving in and out on the trapeze more easier for the crew, but without any netting / seating / armchair at the back, it will make it really difficult for the helm! I don't know about anybody else, but I slide in and out over the wings. Putting a cover here like a 4000, then the ISO will not be an ISO anymore.
Whatever the new style, the weight will initially be the same as the old current style and will not increase the speed of the boat I know, so that isn't concerning me.
Pete |
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Mike Perry |
Posted: 10-Mar-04 19:12 |
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So who would want racks?
If it's good enough for the 49er it's good enough for me.
Anyway, it's part of the character of the ISO.
As a thought provoking idea; why not improve the existing wings.
Many people critisize them because they leak; thus take in water, un-necessary weight - how about having them fully vented but must comply with a minimum weight rule?
Any other ideas on this subject out there?
Maybe this should be the start of another thread?
Mike
[Edited by Mike Perry on 10-Mar-04 19:13] |
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rob |
Posted: 10-Mar-04 21:17 |
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If the fleet decide to introduce wings that make a substantial difference it will split the fleet three ways: old wings new wings no wings. as far as the results of last year prove the wings dont seem to hinder that much as noted on the old message board most of the top boats in the fleet have wings therefore they cant be slowing you down or hindering people that much. |
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Jim Rowe |
Posted: 11-Mar-04 14:22 |
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Does anyone have any photos of what the rest of us missed by not going to the Dinghy show? It would be nice to see whats on offer.
Excellent new discussion forum, and the good news is that it hasn't killed the contributions, unlike the Rooster site. Well done Pete!! |
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ISO 653 |
Posted: 11-Mar-04 15:39 |
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I've got some pictures of the wings and can take a couple of the prototype stock we developed soon. I'm sure I can't attach them to email via this site so drop me an email and I'll send you one direct. Can only be a while before the site has a few in its gallery though ...
Cheers - Mike Lyons '653'
Race Marine - mpl@racemarine.com |
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