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Topic: Rig Tension |
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 16-Jun-05 21:55 |
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Hi Everyone,
The setup guides talk about applying 300lb rig tension, is this measured somehow ( is there such a thing as a rig tension gauge )? or is it an educated guesstimate of 75lb through the 4:1 purchase ? ( a good hard yank ! )
Also what is the word on the positioning of the purchase; outside the mast gate or through it ?
Cheers
Rob
P.S. does anyone know where to get hold of halyard bags which attach to the spaceframe with velcro ? |
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Mike Perry |
Posted: 16-Jun-05 23:28 |
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Rob
You are quite correct in thinking that the 300lbs tension is measured with a rig tension gauge. I use the International Sailing Products tension gauge as endorsed by Super Spars (makes sense as it is their mast we are using). The purchase for the rig tension / jib halyard needs to go through the mast gate otherwise it will get in the way of the TackTik / compass that you will want to fit there.
Try Wet&Windy ( www.wet-windy.co.uk ) for the rig tension gauge; he should also have the halyard bag that you are after.
If you are a member of the ISO Class Assn mentoin it to Andy and who knows he may even give you a discount. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 17-Jun-05 13:41 |
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The rig tension purchase goes inside the gate (like the Buzz).
http://www.trident-uk.com/shop/acatalog/Spars_and_Rigging_Equipment.h
tml
The SuperSpars gauge is the one the measurements are set from. Strangely, 300lbs seems to be different depending on which gauge you use!?
Hook the gauge on the shroud at about shoulder height (this is so you can repeat the settings my measuring from the same place every time)
Use as per instructions with the device.
Pete
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 09-Jul-05 21:55 |
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Hi All,
I now have a Superspars rig tension gauge, Pete says hook it onto the shroud - If you do this, shouldn't you tension the rig to read 150Lb as ( presumably ) the Jib luff wire tension is evenly distributed between the two shroud wires ? any thoughts ?
Cheers
Rob |
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mmoncia |
Posted: 11-Jul-05 11:01 |
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Hi Rob,
unfortunately you cannot simply devise shroud tension by dividing by a factor 2 the jib tension...
you shoud consider the angles that jib and shroud form with the mast, and lateral vs longitudinal (and vertical as well) components for forces on the mast...
the best aproach would be measuring the shroud tension on a boat already set up (with proper rig tension) and use the same on your boat.
[Edited by mmoncia on 11-Jul-05 11:05] |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 11-Jul-05 22:52 |
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Follow the rig tuning guides on the web site - they provide a very good starting point as a nominal setting.
Technique is to :-
put the jib up only
swatcher fully off
rig tension to 300lb ( not 150lb )- measured at about chest height when standing in the boat. That's 26 on the Superspars gauge
check mast rake for about 7.3m to the top of the upper rudder gudgeon
check the mast is straight from the gooseneck to the tip - pack the mast either side or if well out then change shroud plate settings to compensate
and if you change anything - start at the top and work through again
A few people have other techniques but this one gives you a good starting point and it's pretty easy to follow.
Hope that helps
Cheers
Bob |
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 13-Jul-05 22:40 |
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Thanks Bob,
Going to play on the sea for a fortnight this weekend, and we can now get the boat set up properly.
I've printed off the tuning / setup guides for reference - they really are very useful.
Cheers
Rob |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 13-Jul-05 22:58 |
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....... if you were coming to Garda you could get the boat checked out and many a sailing tip picked up as well ..... Plus it's just plain darned good fun 
Change your mind ? |
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 14-Jul-05 16:02 |
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Maybe next year !!!!
Cheers
Rob |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 17-Apr-06 11:06 |
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I am thinking about better pointing. Jib tell tales (luff side) starting to flapper quite quick..
Therefore I want to start with measing the mastrake How do I measure the 7300 mm? Is it simply putting a centimeter on the main haliyard and hoist it??? Or shout I put the boat in one side and than measuring (That's the way I did it with the tasar)
Hans |
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 17-Apr-06 11:15 |
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Hi Hans,
I attached a piece of spare halyard to the Main halyard bobble, pulled it to the top of the mast and marked off at the top of the rudder post, its them easy to measure the distance along the cord with a tape measure - is this the way the experts do it ??
Cheers
Rob |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 18-Apr-06 08:44 |
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We attach a reel tape measure to the halyard and pull it to the top of the mast and cleat it off. The tape is then take to the back of the boat and the measurement is read from the top aft part of the rudder post. 7.3m ish |
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murphcbr6 |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 11:06 |
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I've done all this - but can someone tell me what tension they have on the shrouds?
(I suspect my mast might be bent slightly forward and I need to increase the distance from rudder post to top of mast - as the shoroud tension was reading about 30 on the superspars guage with 300lbs jib tension and 7300mm of rake) |
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Rob_Heath |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 13:19 |
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Hi Murph
I asked the same sort of questions last year - the tension is measured on the shrouds not the jib wire, measured at a convenient point for repeatability ( Shoulder height . As soon as I measured the tension correctly, everything worked properly. I suspect that if you apply 300lb to the jib wire, you will get a very high tension on the shrouds, which is probably why you think the mast is bent forward !
Regards
Rob ( 806 ) |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 13:20 |
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300lbs rig tension on the shrouds should read on the superspars guage scale on the top, 26 not 30. 30 would probably be about 400lbs
put your guage on a shroud. |
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murphcbr6 |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 13:35 |
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OK - that instantly makes a lot more sense.
I'll have a go at it this weekend and let you know the results.
thanks for that. |
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Ian Moss |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 14:55 |
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Just whack the tension on as much as you can. That works for us. If it looks a bit sloppy and you are going slower than everyone else, tighten it. If you are going slower and it is tight, loosen it. If neither work change something else.
On a serious note though I don't think we have ever measured the rake or the tension and if we did we would probably find it is not the accepted norm. I would also suggest that it is far more important to get the spreader angle, swatcher and kicker right as they all affect the sail shape far more.
Ian |
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Colin Snook |
Posted: 19-Apr-06 23:15 |
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Interesting point Ian. I tend to agree re tension. Last season I put the tension up to 26 on gauge as I had been using the wrong shroud diameter. If anything it felt slower and I started hearing cracking noises while sailing. Several hairline cracks appeared in the deck. Possibly coincidence but I have reverted to pulling on what feels about right to me and chucked the gauge. Haven't noticed any change in speed (i.e. still crap!).
The rake seems to make a big difference though. dropping the shroud plates a hole (i.e. more rake) really depowers.
Will check my spreaders.
Colin
p.s. I rather like the bubbly sail insignia although I did remove the spiky ISO from my hull. |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 23-Apr-06 20:56 |
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So today...
We did another sail in light air.
First we started with the mastrake check.. we had about 7330. That explained part of the pointing problem I think.
We also measured the sidestay length bu there was a difference of about 4mm When we tried to correct for that difference (an extra hole up) The mast bend sideway under tension. So we did undo the correction (having our mast not right up I guess) At least a straight mast.
Though we didn't have at shroud tensionmeter, We tried the "big yank" and that worked ok.
We put the boat on the side to check the spreaders.. The were ok I think. But than we saw the popnails coming out of the mast of the top gennaker halyard. Is it simply drilling out and new nails in it Or better screw them??
Another question coming up (we have very little experience with gennaker... Up till now we put the kite on off wind and (better broad reaching) Can it be used halfwind (reaching??) also (as a kind of super genoa? We did it and it was ok in Bf3... We even tried to tack with the gennaker on ) but that was not so easy...  So we stick to gybing withe the kite on. |
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gbr507 |
Posted: 10-Jun-06 18:37 |
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PT1 loos gauge - what should the rig tension read on? |
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