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Topic: Dave's Stupid Questions |
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dt |
Posted: 11-May-07 19:35 |
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Just took my new Buzz to the sailing club and tried to rig it for the first time tonight (in the rain). After sailing Lasers and Darts I have a few stupid questions, so I thought I'd start a new thread
Stupid Question No.1
I'm new to the "jib is the forestay" design.
My questions is, what do you do you do between sailing sessions.
Do you leave the jib up and exposed to the elements or let it drop into the bottom of the boat in which case the mast flaps a bit, or do you take the jib home and store it?
Dave |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 11-May-07 20:31 |
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Hi Dave,
Stupid Answer no.1 to Stupid Question No.1.
Unfurl the jib, take down, remove tack and head from space frame and halyard respectively. Role jib up and store.
Mast will be fine as it is in a mast gate and this will hold it upright along with the two shrouds.
If you wish to tie the spinnaker halyard to the space frame at the bow, then take up the slack to just snug it up to help stop the mast wobbling in the wind in the boat park, then fine.
NEVER leave your jib up through the week open to the elements - unless you are rich and can afford to throw money away - in which case throw it my way please!!!
Pete
[Edited by Pete Lindley on 11-May-07 20:32] |
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dt |
Posted: 12-May-07 07:50 |
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Thanks Pete!
Stupid Questions No.2
My swatcher appears to go through a pulley at one end and through a cleat at the other end. Do I just tie a knot in the pulley end (in whihc case the pulley seems pointless)or does it do go somewhere else?
From some photos that Stuart kindly sent me it looks like you might tie to the cleat, then loop back from the pulley to the cleat?
(In my defence it was raining quite hard when I was looking at all this last night and the manual does not show it clearly).
[Edited by dt on 12-May-07 08:12] |
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Stu B |
Posted: 12-May-07 18:13 |
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Hi.
The swatcher rope does tie to cleat, then run through block and then back through the cleat with a stopper know on the end.
When i remove my jib i have a spare bit of rope that i tie between the jib halyard and the furler, i then tension the halyard enough so that the mast does not rest on the rear of the mast gate on the frame. The 'spare bit of rope' has to be the correct length for the jib halyard to tension before running out of adjustment on the jib halyard purchase bit!!
If you need a photo of these parts i can do it tomorrow possibly.
Stuart. |
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Stu B |
Posted: 12-May-07 18:19 |
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Dave,
I have emailed photo of how i leave thee jib halyard.
Stuart. |
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dt |
Posted: 12-May-07 21:12 |
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Thanks guys.
Watch out for stupid question No.3, if it ever stops raining! |
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dt |
Posted: 15-May-07 18:36 |
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Stupid question No.3 (multipart)
a) The manual says "let the mast rest on the rear of the gate and attach the shrouds to the lowest hole you can reach"
My shrouds are so long that they hit the deck - is that a big problem?
b) From the website: daggerboard setting 1-6 for different wind strengths - is this just talking about when going upwind? Presumably you'd raise it all/most the way going downwind?
c)What are strops? Are they the bits that secure/return the main to the deck? |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 15-May-07 19:11 |
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Multi part stupid question - calm down Dave!!! 
a) Lean mast to back of gate, take chainplates off of shrouds, and put chainplates on boat where they should be. Now offer teh shrouds to the chainplates wherever the shrouds dangle in the chainplate, stick the pin in.
If your shrouds go past the last hole on the chainplate by a good distance then yes this could be a problem. It means that your mast will be pointing too far forwards and handling the boat could be trickier.
b) Daggerboard setting - ignore all that. You will have too much else to worry about! If windy then lift it about 4" - 6" on all points of sailing.
c)Strops are the wire & rope bits that have the little mainsheet block attached at the top. Do not have these too short else handling the main will be hard work. You can only set these when you have done your rake and rig tension is on i.e. with jib up.
Pete |
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dt |
Posted: 03-Jun-07 18:07 |
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After a business trip, a bout of illness and a house moveI finally got the new Buzz out this weekend.
All went well, but a couple more questions:
1. There was not much wind and with two adults on board it was a bit tricky.
When there's not enough wind for you both to sit out where do you normally sit?
2. All I need to do now is get the gennaker up.
Does anybody have a simplified diagram. I have the one in the manual and the one from
the Boss forum, but it all looks a bit baffling. |
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Stu B |
Posted: 04-Jun-07 01:26 |
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Hi Dave,
Light winds . . . the crew sits forward and to leeward, but not normally further forward than the space frame, the helm sits forward on the windward side. Ideally the helm will be close to the shroud, but an extendable tiller extension is required for this.
Spinnaker rigging . . . make sure the head, tack and clew are marked up with H, T and C. Connect the tack to the end of the pole then work your way along the white edge (i think) to the head and connect the spin halyard. You can then work either from the head to the clew or from the tack to the clew and connect the sinnaker sheets. One spinnaker sheet will come straight from the block, the other from the opposite block and in front of the jib to the clew. The sheets will be above the spinnaker halyard downhaul which exits the sock, goes through the eye in the kite to the attachment at the top of the spinnaker, it is a good idea to mark the eye in the spinnaker with 'IN' to help with which way the downhaul goes through. Finally and probably the most important part before going for a sail is to hoist the kite and check it is rigged correctly!! You can then correct the bits you have got wrong!!! It still happens after many years of rigging spinnakers.
Hope that helps.
Stuart |
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dt |
Posted: 04-Jun-07 17:21 |
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Thanks Stu - I'll have a look |
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dt |
Posted: 05-Jun-07 21:19 |
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OK - I got it up tonight
I don't think it's quite right though. I'll try to do a diagram of what I've done.
a) The bit I don't get is the pole launching and retracting. How does that work with the Gennaker?
b) Also, on what points of sail should I use th Gennaker?
We're off to Coniston next weekend, so I hope I can get it right by then. |
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Stu B |
Posted: 05-Jun-07 21:41 |
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Dave, i'll email you some photo's of the pole setup on my Buzz tomorrow if you like, probably easier that explaining . . .
Stuart. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 05-Jun-07 23:43 |
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Don't hoist when beating! |
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dt |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 09:07 |
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Next thrilling installment - really stupid this time!
Where do you put your burgee?
I can't find a slot in the top of the mast.
I tried slotting it down the top of the sail, but I don't think that's a good idea, and the sail
won't go up past the spreaders with a burgee in. So I had to capsize the dinghy to insert it. |
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Stu B |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 09:19 |
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You will need to fit a burgee bracket, something like a holt fitting HA4066 will do it.
See http://www.wet-windy.co.uk/2140_buzz_mast.html 3rd item on list.
A picture of it is here, http://www.purplemarine.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=451809
Stuart.
Buzz 763.
[Edited by Stu B on 21-Jun-07 09:22]
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Mark Wilson |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 11:08 |
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Alternativly if you sail where you are likely to get the mast stuck in the mud save money and tie old music cassette tape to the shrouds at about eye-height. They don't give quite such a true wind direction but I find they are much more convinient to use as you don't have to keep taking your eye off everything else you should be looking at for souch a long time. It also works out a lot cheaper. Even though not many people use this method I find it really good and in all wind strengths, even if you have the jib furled (say between races, or sailing downwind in light airs).
Happy sailing
Jane
Buzz 1027
PS Remember to only refer to the windward one - the leeward one will give very odd readings with the wind coming of the sails making it dance in a very odd way.
[Edited by Mark Wilson on 21-Jun-07 11:11] |
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Stu B |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 11:28 |
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I agree, cassette tape works very well, especially downwind. I have this on my Buzz as well as a burgee.
Stuart. |
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dt |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 12:13 |
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Thanks again - what a service!
We'd really like to get to the training event, but it's such a long way for us. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 21-Jun-07 16:06 |
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Or forget burgee's etc and use the force Luke! |
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dt |
Posted: 26-Jun-07 08:00 |
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Starting to get out in some stronger winds now. F5-F6 last weekend.
A bit shallow near out jetties, so I left the rudder pin out and relied on the mechanism. My son was not impressed when the rudder came up in a big blow, resulting in an involuntary gybe, and deposited us both in the water. Won't do that again.
He then jumped onto his friends Topper and left me. I really struggled to right the dinghy on my own.
1. Is there a recommended righting technique for lightweights?
Looking at the tuning guide http://www.bu22.co.uk/techtuning/tuning.htm
I'd like to understand a bit more about why those settings are recommended and what's actually happening.
2. My natural inclination was to tension the jib halyard in stronger winds to straighten the top of the mast and flatten the top of the sail to give less power. The tuning guide recommends the opposite - why?
3. The daggerboard setting - down in light winds, up a bit in stronger winds - is this just referring to upwind sailing? |
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ifoxwell |
Posted: 26-Jun-07 15:54 |
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My thoughts for what they are worth... as i don’t sail a Buzz at the moment
1: Let the kicker and Cunningham off and rig yourself some righting lines so that you can stand well back on the board.
2: Letting the tension out of the rig will make it more flexible and thus more manageable in stronger winds HOWEVER I wouldn’t recommend it. It will power up the jib making the helm feel crap and if you don’t have enough tension in the extremes you risk snapping the mast if you put the kite up. I always worked on more tension in more wind... and if it really is survival conditions then just don’t go out.
3: If you need to pull it up upwind then leave it up for downwind as well. On a windward leeward course it often pays to pull the board up a bit downwind any way regardless of conditions.
Ian
EX 844 FeFe Fiasco
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Mark Wilson |
Posted: 26-Jun-07 18:28 |
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Hi
Well I am sure someone will correct me but here is what we do (we are relatively light; helm - 8.5 stone, crew weight - 10 stone):
Jib - we put on a lot of tension in ALL winds as we find this works best for us and certainly helps us to point better - I think quite a few of the others do this too. We certainly don't let it off in heavy winds as I find, on the helm, it makes it more unpredictable.
Kicker - lots on in heavy winds (ie yank it on hard and then pull some more...) as it blades off the top of the sail (by bending the mast) - we have found this crucial to survival in heavy winds and makes the boat handle better and enables us to go out in wind we otherwise wouldn't dream of being out in. Much less kicker in lighter winds just to prevent boom from lifting (eg in gusts or if crossing wake etc).
Swatcher - This also makes a remarkable difference, if caught out when the wind picks up try and take some off (release kicker, outhaul, cunningham first). When off, mast bends and sail is flatter - less power.
Shrouds - rake back in heavy winds, but beware boom is lower so you have to duck lower.
Dagger board - Having it up can help prevent tripping over it in the water (if very windy having it up a bit allows the boat to 'skid' sideways slightly taking away some of the capsizing moment), but we find it sometimes casues a problem for the crew so we generally leave ours down most of the time, however in very heavy winds we may raise it slightly on all points of sail (if we remember but find kicker and swatcher more importnat). The exception is that we do raise it if trying to go very deep downwind in light winds to reduce friction.
Righting (mmm - Mark does all the hard work and I just wait to be scopped up so I am no expert but some of this may help???)
1) try not to capsize by ensure you have the boat rigged for the conditions, but if you do go over try not to go in to windward as it can be a pig to get up and then flip-flops straight back over - I know this is easier said that done!
2) try to prevent it from turtleing by ensuring someone is on the board asap, and anyone waiting to be scooped up isn't hanging on to anything other than very very lightly in order to keep contact with the boat
3) ensure all sheets are uncleated as if they are the sails cannot spil the wind so you will have to fight aginst powered up sails when righting
4) release some kicker (so loose), reason as above, and also a bit of cunnigham (not quite so critical)
5) put spinnaker away if up - unless there really is no wind (and if this is the case why are you in the water anyway??)
6) In windy conditions I sometimes furl the jib before righting, not really sure if it helps but I do it in the hope it reduces righting forces
7) If you are finding you can't get enough leverage from which ever ropes you are using to right the boat (we use the spinnaker sheets, around shroud/block, which are pretty long if pulled through) you can attach some righting lines, ISOs have them under the gunnel - but a bit of rope attached to the mast or shroud should allow you to lean back more on the dagger board and increase righting moment.
Over to Stuart and Pete to correct me.....
Happy sailing
Jane - Fritzz 1029
[Edited by Mark Wilson on 26-Jun-07 18:33] |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 26-Jun-07 20:45 |
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Any of these might help:
http://www.isoracing.org.uk/iso_guides/handling/index.htm
Pete
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Stu B |
Posted: 27-Jun-07 00:53 |
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I agree with most of the above, but i do disagree with one part of your message Jane . . . your sail number!!!
Rig tension, i normally have between 20 and 25 on the forstay using a superspars guage.
Righting - i use the spinnaker sheet, i grab the sheet from in front of the spinnaker ratchet block and behind the sheet turning block to form a triangle ( dont know if that makes sense, prob requires another photo!!).
One control not mentioned above is cunningham, i use lots of this when windy as it opens up the top of the main and therefore depowers it a bit, well i think so anyway!
Dave, your comment on more rig tension straightening the top of the mast, my mind suggests different. My reason for this is that more rig tension is trying to force the spreaders inwards/forwards and the top shroud mounts back, this in turn produces lots of mast bend. Assuming the swatcher is also off this bend is the result of the centre of the mast moving forward, which pulls the front edge of the main forwards and flattens the sail considerably. Does that answer your question? The only reason letting the tension off works, i think, is that when a gust hits the rig has some 'give' in it.
Bye for now . . .
Stuart.
Buzz 763. |
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paolomoncia |
Posted: 04-Jul-07 18:22 |
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I agree with all of the above, just can add to pull the outhaul to help flattening the mainsail.
And, as you need lots of kicker, shorten the mainsail strops!
I have righting lines (ISO-style) on my Buzz and no problem in righting the boat and scoop up my partner... but I am not really a lightweight!
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dt |
Posted: 11-Jul-07 17:13 |
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OK, thanks again for all the help.
We've done a bit of racing now and are extperts at righting a Buzz.
It is now apparent though that we are VERY slow. We're not using the gennaker in races yet, but even in good winds we struggle to keep up with what should be much slower boats.
If we could get down for the nationals (not to race obviously!) could somebody have a look at our boat set-up for us and perhaps have a quick training sail with us?
We could probably make much faster progress with a little expert help and guidance. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 11-Jul-07 21:26 |
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Dave - get yourself to the nationals!
You will definately get help from most of the fleet! You had best be down there to sail round the course - even if you aren't 'racing' in your eyes.
Words on this message board can only help so much. In the end actually showing you how to do something will really get the message across.
Pete
ISO 1013 'Team RWO' |
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Stu B |
Posted: 12-Jul-07 00:47 |
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Yes Dave, I'll second that!! and we'll give you all the advise you need, which i must add might not be good advise!!
Anyway, come along, it'll be nice to meet you and i'm sure you'll have a great weekend!!
Stuart and Zoe
Buzz 763 |
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dt |
Posted: 12-Jul-07 12:30 |
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We certainly need help guys.
We completed our first race last night.
We were 10mins behind the Laser 1s on adjusted time! That's not good is it?
In our defence it was blowing F4, gusting F5/F6, so we used only the mainsail as my crew Gill has never crewed or raced before, and we fell in, and we weigh 24st.
I also had a couple of new problems.
When tacking and gybing I was getting the tiller, and sometimes my kneck, stuck in the strops.
Also I'm going across the boat on my knees and they're black and blue.
Any advice? |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 12-Jul-07 13:06 |
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Tiller extension goes round the back (avoids the strops).
Gybes - with only the main up in a force 4/5/6 - I personally would find it tricky. All the rig balances would be wrong, the boat speed would be slow and the rig would have quite a bit of load in it, physically tricky to balance the boat, awquard to steer......
Edit your profile on this message board Dave so we can see where you are based. Also, if you haven't already, register on the google map and see if there is a Buzz close to you who you could contact / go see for help.
http://www.isoracing.org.uk/db/sailingdb/index.php
Pete
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Ian Moss |
Posted: 14-Jul-07 21:25 |
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Gybing downwind without the kite is not actually that hard and if you can get that right doing it with the kite up should be easy. What you cannot do is let the main out and hope to jibe the boom from shroud to shroud. I have seen GP's and Alb's doing it but the fully battened rig and hull shape will not let you do it. The best way is to do it the same way as if you do have the kite up, the difference being you dont have as much boat speed so need to be quicker. Bear away as much as you can whilst keeping the speed up, let the main out a bit which will make the boat heel to windward and bear away. (Let the crew know what you are doing so they can come in off the wire when required) boat will naturally bear away so only a very small amount of rudder required, if any. As the boom gybes let out a bit of main sheet to soften the power up, straingten the rudder and climb UP the boat to the new windward side (saving knees from being bruised). Bear away if required but if the crew is quick and you both get to the new windward side you can flatten the boat gaining speed and stability at the same time.
Without the kite is can be hard to beat other boats on PY but in right conidtions it can done even on none W/L course. Don't be put off, keep practicing and that 10 mins difference will start to shrink. First target is to beat the lasers on the water.
Ian
ISO 1207 |
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dt |
Posted: 20-Jul-07 15:36 |
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The thing that hold my kicker to the boom (it's made from what appears to be some very inappropriate woven material that says Topper on it and may be called a strop - or is that what you have when it breaks?) is on its last legs.
Is it possible/advisable to replace it with a more conventional stronger fixing or should I replace it with an identical fixing?
Incidentally, looking at some other pics, my mainsheet strops appear to have been replaced at some point with riveted metal fixings. |
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Al S |
Posted: 20-Jul-07 20:32 |
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That style kicker attachment is far from innapropriate- examine pictures of more modern high tech boats (moths, I14s, 18 ft Skiffs etc) you'll see they use the same form of strop attachment. It spreads the loads far better than a rivited metal fixture. Get a new one from Wet and Windy if yours is dead looking. |
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dt |
Posted: 06-Aug-07 12:23 |
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Got a new one from Wet and Windy - it's even the original Topper one with the stitched words |
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dt |
Posted: 17-Aug-07 15:34 |
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The board's a bit quiet pre-nationals, so a couple of things that have crossed my mind recently:
i) When going upwind with the main right in, I have been known to cleat it. That may be bad practice, but I'm an old wuss and it does have a cleat so I use it. Anyway, I then get a gust the feet go under the toes strap and I'm hiking out, but the next thing that happens is that my feet come up and the toestrap uncleats the main. Is that just an occupational hazard?
ii) I don't know what you call it, but my main block has a small red lever/switch on it that controls the running of the pulley. If keeps coming on all by itself and it makes the main hard to play as it won't then run out freely. I have to come into the boat to switch it off again, losing a lot of concentration and speed. Is it suppoed to do that, and can I stop it somehow?
Dave |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 17-Aug-07 16:50 |
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Oh I'm so looking forward to next Friday Dave! You won't know what has hit you when we step in the boat with you!!!
I would say tighten your toe straps, but it all depends on your height etc. You can use the cleat for the mainsheet, but it must also be in you hand ready to be uncleated in the event of a gust as the ultimate goal always, is to keep the boat flat. Also never tack with the mainsheet cleated - I'm sure you will do a perfect demostration in front of the camcorder on Friday showing what happens if you do tack with it cleated!
The switch on the side of the block you mention is to switch the ratchet on and off. In light winds it should be off and therefore allow the block to run both ways. When windy, switch it on and it allows the block to run one way, but not the other. Hopefully you have the mainsheet threaded so that when you pull the mainsheet the block runs, and when you let go it doesn't....? If it keeps on switching on when you don't want it, put some tape of over the switch.
Pete
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dt |
Posted: 19-Aug-07 21:00 |
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You mean we're actually going on the water!
Only joking - we had a couple of better races today, getting within 2 or 3 mins of the Lasers and actually beat a Mirror on adjusted time.
If we can find 10% in the training we'll be well happy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Uz2bpfnsc |
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Stu B |
Posted: 20-Aug-07 00:30 |
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Hi Dave,
I use the cleat most of the time, it normally uncleats fine when required. My ratchet block also turns itself on occasionally, a little annoying, but it doesn't happen enough to worry me . . . yet!
The toestrap problem can be cured either by tightening them, or by attaching a piece of rope from them to the main sheet anchor point on the deck, i think. I'll show you on Friday.
Just got home from a fab weekend at Paignton with the Buzz!!
Stuart.
Buzz 763. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 20-Aug-07 07:23 |
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Not a bad gybe Dave.
Looks like your tacks need a little work - slow them down by using a different technique - gives your crew a chance to stay in the boat!
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