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Author Topic: New Sails, what you think??
Stu B Posted: 21-Jun-07 00:51
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Hi All,

I received my new Buzz main and jib a couple of weeks ago and thought i'd start a discussion on what people think of their new investment, worthwhile or not?!?!

I have now tried mine in all conditions i think and my main objective was to have a set of sails that worked upwind better than the old ones, obviously this was for club racing rather than class racing when it wouldn't have mattered as everyone had the same sails . . . apparently!! (a few different cuts over the years i have found between full and flat . . . good old Sobstad!!)

The first time i used them was when Zoe and I borrowed a set for Chew Valley when blowing a gale, on this occasion we wouldn't have noticed any difference speedwise, but did notice a huge difference on gust response. We found that where we would normally have to release the jib in the gusts we could perhaps get away with it with the new jib, perhaps helped by having the sheets attached to the lower position of the three.

We have since received our own main and jib and managed to test them on Saturday, with the wind blowing force 3, gusting 37 knots!. We found that on a 2 sail reach we got much more weather helm than normal, but this may have been the conditions, it's very hard to set the sails up for the mean wind speed and the gusts, plus taking into account the boat leaning over before we had a chance to adjust the trim.

Sunday, we were presented with different conditions, a force 1 to 3. We found the sails were a lot quiter!! regardless of performance!! They seemed to perform well once a force 2 arrived, but not at all when a force 1, not suprising as a buzz will never go well when very light, especially when racing Wayfarers!! As soon as the wind picked up a fraction we'd leave them, but when it dropped they'd catch us, as you'd expect with the old sails too.

A Summary . . . The new sails are certainly more forgiving when windy!! The new sails are possibly quicker upwind. The new sails are more fussy to adjustments due to being a flatter cut. The new sails are certainly safer due to being see through them!!

As to whether it will improve our speed when club racing . . . who knows, but if we end up at the back of the fleet at least we'll look good there!!

Let the class know your views on the Hyde sails, they certainly look good and hopefully they'll perform well, but from our first test i think they'll need a few more adjustments whilst racing to acheive their full potential compared to the old sails. Unless of course it was just us with the old sails that set the controls for the day and left them there!!! other than a few kicker adjustments!!

Anyway, it'll be good to hear your views . . .

Stuart and Zoe.
Buzz 763.
Pete Lindley Posted: 21-Jun-07 08:24
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After the Downs event, my perception was that they were quicker upwind. My reasons for this are:
- I hadn't helmed or even sailed the buzz for a while
- Matt was really tall and the two of us must have been the heaviest in the fleet.
- The boat had a center board - not daggerboard (it was shorter, narrower, pointy)
- The boat leaked like a sieve.

Yet despite the above, we were still going faster in a straight line upwind.

I did notice at Felixstowe (in the ISO's) that those with Hydes (in front of us) (we were using sobstads) were not trapezing, yet I was trapezing a lot harder. Despite this, we were not much quicker if at all.

Bryn n Can Posted: 21-Jun-07 20:34
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The debate begins!!!

We also have new sails and the first thing to say is my goodness they look good!!!! after putting our 3M high poledancer logo on them they look even better!!!

we also found last weekend that in a F1 they are hard look but as soon as it picked up they flew! Firstly its worth saying thay are ALOT flatter cut than sobs and as Stu says react alot better to gusts, this may be becase of the increased leech allowing the main to dump more and remain constant power.

One thing i'm trying to work out is, is the luff longer than the sobs? without any cunningham on the bottom of the sail was touching the boom!!! also our rig/jib tension marks will also have to be changed for the new length of the jib!

without sailing them in more conditions i'm yet to have a varied opnion but so far they're very impressive!

will be very intersting to see more opinions and veiws on the new sails compared to the Sob's

Bryn n Can

p.s check the roadford website for the pics taken in whitson!!!
Mark Wilson Posted: 30-Jul-07 22:42
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We tried the new sails last weekend in pretty unpredicted conditions of force 2 to 3.

Really good that you can see through the sails easily which makes letting the kite collapsing a lot more preventable and potential collisions with others much more avoidable.

The jib set very nicely and quite full although the batten fixings were a bit strange, having been used to buckle or tuck away systems that are employed on windsurf sails (it took us a while to spot the 'extra batten' used for the tucking in the ones in the sail.

The main as expected sets fairly flat. We think we might try setting swatcher tighter than with the old sails, thus straightening the mast further to induce some shape in the top. We have not done any batten tension adjustment yet as I imagine the tension the mnf puts on them is the correct amount.

Although the start of the race was a bit of a right off (we were just too big to squeeze into the gap Jane had spotted so had to do penalty turns), we seemed to maintain an as expected position in the fleet. Our mixed fleet had a fair few 400s which we know how we sail against normally.

So generally, its a thumbs up for the sails - well done to all in making this happen. Fed week is coming up in Chichester harbour and looking forward to competing there (any other Buzzes or ISOs doing it; - we may learn more about them then.


[Edited by Mark Wilson on 31-Jul-07 12:16]
pjhorner Posted: 03-Aug-07 19:40
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I thought it was about time I gave my comments. I tried the new sails for the first time at La Rochelle. I used the old sails the first day and the new ones for the other two days. Although this meant both sets got used for five races each, the wind was much lighter on the first sailing day. So it is difficult to compare performance. The first most striking difference is the ability to see what is to leeward - the sails are so see-through! The sails look a lot flatter and this may account for the fact that although I was having having trouble getting all the battens to pop on the old set there was no problem whatever with the new ones. However, this could be due to the different wind strength or the fact that David and I finally worked out how to start sailing the boat properly! (Like Mark, I didn't do any batten tension adjustment. I assumed they were delivered with the correct tension.)

Buzz 965
Mark Wilson Posted: 14-Aug-07 13:17
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Update on new sail sailing.

We've been trying the new sails in a large mixed handycap fleet down at Hayling. Unfortunately no other Buzzes there but part of the Emsworth ISO gang are there flying round the courses with their new sails and doing very well thank you. We're... well .. not so highflying.

How flat are people sailing their jib. We've pulled in tighter than with Sobstads so the foot is bowed inwards rather than curved at the bottom. This gives us good pointing but difficult to tell comparative speed upwind - as no other buzzes. We've put more swathcer on to keep the mast staighter than pre hyde times. Has anyone moved their spreaders forward as suggested on the ISO site? Leaning furthter to windward - we've still to try this, but we'll have a go in the next few days.

There's loads of RS500s in our fleet but most retired, but we'd like to whop them so they get converted to the buzz.. well maybe not.

Just to refinforce - the transparency of the sails is great with 450 other boats whizzing around.
Mark Wilson Posted: 14-Aug-07 13:52
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Does anyone else have problems getting their sheets through the eyes - we have now looped a thin bit of string through the eye and tie the sheets onto this - seems a bit frustrating when a slightly larger eye would save the need to do this???
rudee Posted: 14-Aug-07 14:16
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Hi folks,

Reading this thread, I wondered whether anyone has compared brand new Hydes with brand new Sobstads to make the comparison more real?


Pete Lindley Posted: 14-Aug-07 14:24
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What size jib sheets have you got Mark?
SpellerMike Posted: 14-Aug-07 18:29
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In reply to Rudee.. My thoughts entirely!!! I've been thinking about this re the ISOs but we ought not to forget the reasons for finding an alternative supplier - AVAILABILITY of new sails - Are we all now satisfied with that?? The fact that we're talking about the tuning of the new compared with the old means that they're definately not just quicker out of the bag which would mean we all have to buy new but perhaps quicker than an old set of Sobstads once we've learned how to sail with them?? Mission acomplished by the relevent technical guys on the committees??? Perhaps the Nationals will supply the answers - then again perhaps not...
Mark Wilson Posted: 18-Aug-07 21:51
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Well just finished a windy old Fed Week at Hayling Island in the mixed handicap fleet PY 900 to 1009. We were pretty pleased with the Hydes and after talking to the Emsworth Iso fleet got some good tips.

We did not have as much kicker as in previous 25-30 knott situations and we sailed through the gusts much easier than with the old Sobs. We sailed the boat muchmore on top of ourselves ......and this paid good dividends giving greater upwind speed and lift. We had the jib in very tight most of the time and the sheets tied close to the lowest of the 3 holes. Pete, the sheets we have are 7mm dia (in answer to your question.) When I put on the rig tension I was able to pull the caribina fitting a little lower than before on my scale on the mast, I have not had a chance to remeasure the tip of mast to back of transom measure .....but we seemed to favour around 7150 to 7200mm on the old set up.

We did manage to whap the 500s - ha ha so maybe they might trade in for buzzes?

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