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Topic: New sails - popup picture |
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Richard 828 |
Posted: 18-Feb-07 10:11 |
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Hallo all, i am fascinated by the new sails as in th picture. a few thoughts:
1) there is much more roach at the top, does this mean that the gust sensitivity is different/better? the main does function correctly with the existing mast doesn't it? What about those who still have an old mast with spreaders a few inches lower (yes they do still exist, my spare for instance)
2) the kite is much fuller with a significantly longer luff, looks like it would sail deeper, would be good for upwind/downwind but maybe not so good on a tight reach in a club round-the-cans race. Has anyone sailed against an old type rig for comparison?
If all the front half of the fleet upgrade, will that make a bigger split between the experts and the occasional sailors? I hope that newcomers will not be put off by having to buy a set of new sails for maybe more that the boat cost.
I shall not be buying any in the foreseeable future, my sails still function as well as i can sail, and the house rebuild continues to take most of my time and money, plus the same distraction suffered by Pete and others in the fleet - wedding in may.
In spite of my comments above, the fleet has long needed a reliable sail supply, and I commmend the efforts of the license holder and the committee to find a solution.
greetings to all from a snowless Germany 
Richard |
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Tim |
Posted: 18-Feb-07 12:42 |
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Richard,
Greetings! I'm probably not the person to talk about the sails as I wasn't in formal decison process but I have managed to sail with them. Although the roach looks a little bigger (but I think the actual production one will be a bit smaller) its quite deceptive and th difference isn't half as much as you think! Also it seemed slightly more controlable than the old one, better to blade off when depowering. Both ends on the crew weight scale where there on that day of the photo (Ian and myself and the Lewis's) and the sail seemed to set very well on the existing rigs (ours with loads of power and Richards without any!) without a lot of tweaking.
The jib also is a slightly different shape from the old one (shorter in the luff and longer in the foot as well as slightly flatter, from memory). But the slot shape seemed to match the main very well.
With regard to the kite, I shall leave that to the people in the know as I think that needed addressing.
One of the biggest plus points is the clear material, after sailing the 800 I found the lack of visability with the old sails a real pain. The clear sails gives (esp the crew) far more oppertunity to call crossing boats, boats luffing on the start etc.. Not to mention trying to dodge Buzzes coming upwind as you go downQ
I'm sure the members of the tech com will have plenty to say on this, I'm sure their are some more photos out there, any chance we could get them online as not everyone will make the Dinghy Show
Tim
ISO 1207 |
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Ian Moss |
Posted: 18-Feb-07 19:43 |
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Richard,
Yes it does have a bit more roach which we were all surprised at when they arrived but sailing it in a force 5 it was noticibly easier to depower with the kicker because the top is flatter and blades off, just like a windsurfer sail. This is not an accident as the sail was designed based on the dimensions of the boat, and not copied from an old sail.
As Tim says the picture is of 1207. We didn't change any setting on the boat. We just pulled the new sails up and went sailing as this is what we guessed a majority of ISO sailors would do.
Upwind it performed very similar when compared to a traditional ISO sail, when sailed together.
The kite in the picture is longer in the luff and performance was what can only be described as startling. For those who are worried, the new Hyde kites will be much closer in size to the old one.
Not everyone will rush out and buy a new set but I defy anyone to not think the Hyde sail makes the boat look much more modern? We think it will make the boat more appealing to sail and will be more manageable in the gusts. I suspect that within a couple of years over 80% of ISO's that compete in open meetings will be sporting a set of Hydes.
Congratulations on the wedding Richard.
Ian Moss
ISO 1207 |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 18-Feb-07 22:01 |
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Congrats Richard !!
Maybe see you and yours in La Rochelle ??
We had some great sailing and social there last year and looking forward to doing so again this time around.
Bob |
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Colinsc |
Posted: 19-Feb-07 22:20 |
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Hi New sails look great and will be a great success for the ISO but also look vastly diifferent from old sails. Not being totally flush with wads of cash I would look to replace one sail at a time and wondered how the old sails cross with the new ie old main/new jib or vice versa .Interested to hear results of when the boats were sailed like this and what adjustments were needed to sheeting angles did the old or new jib point higher ?
Great work guys |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 20-Feb-07 18:13 |
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I think we'll find that out on the race circuit!
Not fllush wih cash myself, I will only replace mine when they are totally knackered- or if I ever get racing more frequently!
I think I will take the role of k (constant) for you all to compare against on the racing scene. |
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Mark Cockrill 507 |
Posted: 01-Mar-07 12:28 |
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Loving the new sails and may I add - about time too!! Theres only so much swiming I can cope with when it gets windy on a bear away because that square top won't blade open!!
I for one will be buying a new set and think that the kite should remain the same - lets face it - the main and jib work so well on a tight reach that with the new sail plan when the breeze is up it looks like those angles will be awesome - having defected from our ISO for the last 2 years to the SB3 the shape looks very similar - funnily enough Hydes make the SB3 sails!
Also loving the fact the 49er see through which means no more 16knot port starboards pre-start and excuses why the L4k didn't see us!
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 01-Mar-07 13:33 |
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Only ever had a problem with the bear away once. Brightlingsea Gala event 2002ish? Chuffin windy! Could bear away, but all the boats that had been on the coaching weekend before (that I ran) all managed it! How stoopid did I feel!!! We were just scared I think! |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 05-Mar-07 15:54 |
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Hi All
some time ago we met.
Maarten and I still struggling in high winds (5 bf and above..., poor pointing,very much overpowered, but in lighter winds pretty fast))
We spoilt our main in a 7 bf race so we are very eager to see about the new class developments, specially those those that makes life easier in a blow.
New sails are looking great... really great, So we are very eager to hear how they sail; specially with respect to the automatic depower qualities:).
There was a small remark about the positioning of the spreader rthat triggered my attention: old style mast vs later masts.... I think the position has a large influence on the mastbend in relation with shroudtension) ... what are the recent measures??
Is there also a new mast in the pipeline??
In the meantime we struggle along...
Hans |
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Mark Cockrill 507 |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 12:19 |
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Actually that's just reminded me of something that was mentioned back 3 years ago when the talk of a chage of Sailmaker was a hot topic...
Is the new main actually going to be a fully battened badboy or will there be a possibility of an option for 3/4 length battens like the RS800 who swears by there mains?
Just wanted to know peoples thoughts on this? |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 13:23 |
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Are the new jibs about the same snit as the sobstadt ones??
Last year we bought a new jib and now we have big holes in our main... We try to get it fixed and now we are sailing with the very first (old) main
With Sobstadt sails it was said sails of same series go best together....
[Edited by tasarhans on 06-Mar-07 17:05] |
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Lloyd Walker |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 17:34 |
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snit??? |
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graham_737 |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 17:48 |
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oh come on walker, obviously this is a dutch word for 'cut' . Use your noggin! |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 18:05 |
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Mark - they are full length battens. Take a look at the Show pics - link on the other thread.
Bob
... good to see the crew keeping the helm in order off the water as well as on  ( Mine does the same ! ) |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 06-Mar-07 18:46 |
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yep
I meant cut... |
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graham_737 |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 12:29 |
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The advantage of a dutch flatmate
[Edited by graham_737 on 07-Mar-07 12:44] |
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Lloyd Walker |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 12:58 |
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Graham U spreekt tamelijk vloeiend. Ik heb te weinig oefening. Tot zeans. |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 15:32 |
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Hij heeft niet te slecht - dan beter zijn het varen hoewel lloyd! |
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Diederik Schuuring |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 16:14 |
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Hoi mannen,
Jullie kunnen het echte nederlands beter aan ons over laten. Zo'n woordenboek werkt maar beperkt. Ik denk dat jullie beter zijn in zeilen 
Groet, Diederik |
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graham_737 |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 17:57 |
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Lol, well said Diederik... you showed them
Sprechen sie deutsch anyone?!
[Edited by graham_737 on 07-Mar-07 17:58] |
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Pete Lindley |
Posted: 07-Mar-07 18:18 |
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Me denk mijn varen beter is dan mijn Nederlands! (Wat een boot opnieuw...?) |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 08-Mar-07 13:16 |
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LOL
I hope my english is slightly better. The next topic is how to improve my sailing |
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Bob Ladell |
Posted: 08-Mar-07 16:15 |
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Good to see international relations thriving
.......and the new sails ?? |
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Lloyd Walker |
Posted: 08-Mar-07 18:30 |
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Ya ich sprechen ein kline bission Deutch. Vie geights Graham? |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 09-Mar-07 09:42 |
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Are there any ideas about the difference in the sail cut of sobstadt and hyde jibs??
investing in a new main is different from investing in a complete set of new sails... ie it might be wise buying a recent secondhand sobstadt main?? |
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Lloyd Walker |
Posted: 09-Mar-07 17:13 |
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As far as I know the Hyde sails are flatter although I have not seen them myself. I have heard from people who have seen them at the dinghy show. It is possible that if you put a flatter jib with the full Sobstadt main it might choke the slot more easily. It is also possible that it might not matter as you can just ease the barber haulers abit to allow a bit more twist. I don't suppose anyone will know untill it has been tried. My guess is it wont make that much difference to the slot and a new jib is still a new jib. ie it will be better than an old jib.
Lloyd. |
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Lloyd Walker |
Posted: 09-Mar-07 17:22 |
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Now I see that it is not the jib you are replacing I still think that the same thing will apply. With the new Sobstadt jib you will be able to use a tiny bit more sheet tension without choking the slot if you have a flatter main. Or you may be able to pull on the barberhaulers a bit harder but not so hard that the leach curls in and stalls the sails. Using the controlls it is still likely that you can get the sails to match each other. Lloyd. |
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tasarhans |
Posted: 09-Mar-07 17:43 |
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I see my english is quite double dutch...
but finally...
Next week I hear from my sailmaker what he thinks of our main... repair or replace...
[Edited by tasarhans on 10-Mar-07 07:35] |
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Andrew Gould |
Posted: 10-Mar-07 18:01 |
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we had a quick go with the new Hyde sails when we were testing them. The new jib looked absolutely perfect. The new main looked really good too, much less hooky than the old Sobstad one, though time will tell which is faster. I suspect they will be almost identical, but possibly a slight edge for the new Hydes when it is v. strong or v. light as you no longer have to put on a ton of cunningham to open up the leech at the top. |
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